An invitation-only gathering place for constructive dialogue relating to the Pentecostal experience of Spirit Baptism--from the vantage point of practitioners.
Friday, August 13, 2010
Question #1
What do you see as being the main area/s of need regarding the low Spirit baptism numbers in denominational Pentecostalism?
There are, of course, a number of factors contributing to the decline in the numbers of those being baptized in the Holy Spirit in our churches. Chief among them, I believe, is a widespread misunderstanding, at least on a conscious, working level, of the meaning and purpose of the experience. As a result of decades of theological, missional, and experiential drift, most contemporary Pentecostals, including ministers, perceive Spirit baptism primarily as a means of added spiritual blessing rather than as a prophetic empowerment for missional service. A recent paper, written by my one of my graduate-level students, revealed some interesting facts. This student conducted a survey among credentialed AG ministers in on of our Midwestern U.S. districts. In his research, the student used an open-ended questionnaire to measure the participants’ awareness of the relationship between the missional empowering of the Spirit and effective evangelism and church planting. In the survey he asked each participant to list “critical factors” in each of these areas of ministry. Tellingly, only 20% of these credentialed AG ministers saw Spirit-empowerment as a critical factor in evangelism. (Additionally, 60% saw character and 50% saw programs and practices as critical factors.) In other words, only one in five of these Pentecostal ministers perceived the empowerment of the Spirit to be a “critical factor” in evangelism. Three times as many saw programs and practices as being more important than the empowering work of the Holy Spirit. Similarly, when asked to list the critical factors in church planting, 30% indicated empowerment, 40% indicated practical and organizational skills, and 30% indicated character. This survey indicates a clear departure from a New Testament (as well as a traditional Pentecostal) understanding of Spirit baptism. The New Testament pattern of evangelism preceded by the Spirit’s empowerment (Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:4-8) seems to have escaped many of these AG ministers. I believe that this survey is representative of the general state of affairs in our AG churches countrywide. The time has come for us as a movement to revisit and ‘re-internalize’ Jesus’ clear message in Acts 1:8. This is what we are trying to accomplish in Africa in our Acts 1:8 Conferences on the Holy Spirit and Mission. Our movement’s dangerous drift from a mission-centered to a self-centered view of Spirit baptism has devalued the experience. If it is about personal blessing, it is optional. If, however, it is about fulfilling Christ’s mandate to evangelize the nations, as Jesus clearly taught, it is an absolute necessity.
I agree with Denny that there has been something lost in the spiritual formation of our ministry leaders. The role of pastor in particular is multidimensional. Pastors are expected to know a little about a lot of things and at the same time produce an amazing weekly message that will dazzle first timers, feed the faithful, and fuel the fatiqued. There is little time for the kind of reflection necessary to ward off a reductionist approach to the gospel and especially to Spirit Baptism. We live under the tyranny of Sunday that often seems to come every other day. Our movement's emphasis on the Holy Spirit's equipping for ministry is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, we say it is the call of God and the Holy Spirit that make a ministry leader so we inadvertently de-emphasize training. Then, we have ministers who don't have a strong grasp on the theology of Pentecost and have taken a pragmatic approach to ministry. They see evangelical churches packing in crowds and they don't have any theological moorings to prevent the drift. We need to Re-Father a generation of soundly Pentecostal sons and daughters for ministry.
We have distanced ourselves from teaching and practicing in our local churches. Time factor in our services is too great an emphasis and we do not wait on God to move by his Spirit in our services. In order to see a move of the Spirit, we must plan and allow for it to happen. Outside influences have be a factor as well. Jim Gerhold (Lead Pastor in Sidney, NE)
1) I think the most central problem is a disconnect between what we Pentecostals proclaim and what other people see in us. On the one hand, many tongues-talking Pentecostals don't exhibit much power for witness, and on the other hand, some non-tongues-talking non-Pentecostals exhibit evident success in Christian proclamation and evangelism. So, is the decisive "physical evidence" of Spirit baptism (i.e., empowerment for witness) speaking in tongues, or is it evident success in evangelism?
The old time Holiness Pentecostals who taught (and still teach) entire sanctification dealt with a similar issue. Sometimes people would get blessed at the altar and testify to having been sanctified, but then they would continue to live inconsistent lives--demonstrating that they really hadn't been entirely sanctified. In other words, the subjective experience had to be confirmed by objective evidence. (Or at least the subjective altar experience could be disproved by subsequent objective evidence.)
The situation is a bit different with Spirit Baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues. There is an objective quality to speaking in tongues that differs from a merely subjective experience. Others can see and hear. Nevertheless, sometimes subsequent empirical evidence calls into question an altar experience, even if that altar experience contains both the subjective awareness of having been baptized in the Spirit and the objective evidence of speaking in tongues.
Perhaps we need to understand the INITIAL physical evidence to be the altar experience that holds forth a promise, but that this initial physical evidence can be repudiated by a lack of subsequent physical evidence.
2) Another question sometimes comes up: Can one lose his or her Spirit baptism? Since most Pentecostals are Arminians, it seems we would have to answer "Yes." If a Spirit baptized person can forfeit his or her salvation, a fortiori, such a person can certainly also forfeit his or her Spirit baptism.
3) Some will then complain: All of this just shows how difficult and unnecessary it is to maintain lists of who is, and who isn't, baptized in the Spirit. So, who cares about tongues and baptism in the Spirit?
The problem, of course, is that unless we intentionally seek for God's empowerment, we won't receive it. Some have sought God's empowerment but not tongues (e.g., D. L Moody, and R.A. Torrey). These folks don't bother me nearly as much as those who don't seek Spirit baptism/empowerment with the Spirit at all, but they still bother me because of what I see in Luke/Acts. If only we could find a way both to emphasize what we think is important and to acknowledge that some non-tongues-talkers minister in the power of the Spirit.
This issue of pastors not preaching on the baptism in the Holy Spirit is very important to me. In Africa we are seeing a decreasing percentabe of our members being filled with the Spirit. Recent statisticas reveal that only about 16% of those coming to Christ are being filled with the Spirit. This, I am convinced, is because most of our African pastors are simply not preaching on Spirit baptism and praying with their people to receive. It is my experience, after having preached on the subject hundreds of times in 30 countries in Africa, that when the message is preached and people are given an opportunity to receive, many are immediately filled with the Spirit. A primary goal in the Acts in Africa Initiative is simple: we seek to get each of our 65,000 pastors to preach regularily on the baptism in the Holy Spirit and then pray with their people to receive trusting God for the results. If this will happen, millions of Africans in our AG churches will be filled with the Spirit. So, why are they not preaching the message? Here are some of the possible reasons. I would love to hear more discussion on some of these possible reasons: 1) Lack of understanding concerning the purpose value, and necessity of Spirit baptism (see my previous comments). 2) Lack of confidence in Jesus' promise that he would give the Holy Spirit to those who asked (Luke 11:9-13). Preachers doubt that people will be filled, so they don't bother to preach on the subject. 3) Spiritual dullness (on the part of both preacher and congregation). The Spirit is not actively working in lives. 4) Fear. This includes fear of "closet non-Pentecostals" in the congregations and fear of failure. We fear that if we minister on Spirit baptism and none are filled, we will look less competent, less spiritual, etc. 5) We simply don't know how to effectively pray with people to receive the Spirit, so we avoid the subject.
I see the real issue as being about purpose. The Baptism in the HS is often spoken about as an end in itself- like a goal.
This relationship burned brightly for us when it had the purpose of EMPOWRERING TO WITNESS. That is, it is not just about going deeper with God. It is about becoming His witness and bringing in the lost. When we teach it as an experience onto itself, it becomes hollow, a "should' instead of an incredible world changing relationship because we become powerful to change the world!
Every new believer has a natural, inate desire to share the relationship they have just gained with Christ. What they then lack, is the power and wisdom, and coaching, to do it well! That is, they lack it until they get the baptism in The HS to do it!
We need witnesses! Powerful, walking-on-water believers who are energized by the prayer for the guy who is currently trying to kill us- the next Apostle Paul.
Enter the HS. He comes to give us power to heal so that we can draw an Acts 3 crowd, the wisdom to answer our critics, and the willingness to stand up to the mobs and tell the truth even if they kill us for it.
No we don't preach it enough, I agree with that. But the deeper root cause of why we don't preach it enough is because most of us Pastors have not personally won one of our neighbors to Christ recently, and have found other 'ministry' pursuits more important than reaching a lost person. That takes the edge off of our own walk with the HS, and reduces our fire to teach our people to reach their lost friends.
Denny said... I agree with Gary. According to the clear teaching of Jesus (and Luke) the primary purpose of Spririt baptism in empowerment for witness (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8). This brings up a question that I have been grappling with. "If empowerment for witness is, indeed, the purpose of Spirit baptism, why is it then that the vast majority of those who are genuinely filled with the Spirit in our churches--evidenced by speaking in tongues--do not become effective witnesses for Christ?" Some, who often pray in tongues, have seldom, if ever, told anyone about Jesus. Why is this so? How can we remedy this unacceptable situation?
We simply do not teach/preach on it as much as we should. We do not even talk about it in some circles!
ReplyDeleteThere are, of course, a number of factors contributing to the decline in the numbers of those being baptized in the Holy Spirit in our churches. Chief among them, I believe, is a widespread misunderstanding, at least on a conscious, working level, of the meaning and purpose of the experience. As a result of decades of theological, missional, and experiential drift, most contemporary Pentecostals, including ministers, perceive Spirit baptism primarily as a means of added spiritual blessing rather than as a prophetic empowerment for missional service.
ReplyDeleteA recent paper, written by my one of my graduate-level students, revealed some interesting facts. This student conducted a survey among credentialed AG ministers in on of our Midwestern U.S. districts. In his research, the student used an open-ended questionnaire to measure the participants’ awareness of the relationship between the missional empowering of the Spirit and effective evangelism and church planting. In the survey he asked each participant to list “critical factors” in each of these areas of ministry. Tellingly, only 20% of these credentialed AG ministers saw Spirit-empowerment as a critical factor in evangelism. (Additionally, 60% saw character and 50% saw programs and practices as critical factors.) In other words, only one in five of these Pentecostal ministers perceived the empowerment of the Spirit to be a “critical factor” in evangelism. Three times as many saw programs and practices as being more important than the empowering work of the Holy Spirit. Similarly, when asked to list the critical factors in church planting, 30% indicated empowerment, 40% indicated practical and organizational skills, and 30% indicated character.
This survey indicates a clear departure from a New Testament (as well as a traditional Pentecostal) understanding of Spirit baptism. The New Testament pattern of evangelism preceded by the Spirit’s empowerment (Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:4-8) seems to have escaped many of these AG ministers. I believe that this survey is representative of the general state of affairs in our AG churches countrywide.
The time has come for us as a movement to revisit and ‘re-internalize’ Jesus’ clear message in Acts 1:8. This is what we are trying to accomplish in Africa in our Acts 1:8 Conferences on the Holy Spirit and Mission. Our movement’s dangerous drift from a mission-centered to a self-centered view of Spirit baptism has devalued the experience. If it is about personal blessing, it is optional. If, however, it is about fulfilling Christ’s mandate to evangelize the nations, as Jesus clearly taught, it is an absolute necessity.
I agree with Denny that there has been something lost in the spiritual formation of our ministry leaders. The role of pastor in particular is multidimensional. Pastors are expected to know a little about a lot of things and at the same time produce an amazing weekly message that will dazzle first timers, feed the faithful, and fuel the fatiqued. There is little time for the kind of reflection necessary to ward off a reductionist approach to the gospel and especially to Spirit Baptism. We live under the tyranny of Sunday that often seems to come every other day.
ReplyDeleteOur movement's emphasis on the Holy Spirit's equipping for ministry is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, we say it is the call of God and the Holy Spirit that make a ministry leader so we inadvertently de-emphasize training. Then, we have ministers who don't have a strong grasp on the theology of Pentecost and have taken a pragmatic approach to ministry. They see evangelical churches packing in crowds and they don't have any theological moorings to prevent the drift.
We need to Re-Father a generation of soundly Pentecostal sons and daughters for ministry.
We have distanced ourselves from teaching and practicing in our local churches. Time factor in our services is too great an emphasis and we do not wait on God to move by his Spirit in our services. In order to see a move of the Spirit, we must plan and allow for it to happen. Outside influences have be a factor as well. Jim Gerhold (Lead Pastor in Sidney, NE)
ReplyDelete1) I think the most central problem is a disconnect between what we Pentecostals proclaim and what other people see in us. On the one hand, many tongues-talking Pentecostals don't exhibit much power for witness, and on the other hand, some non-tongues-talking non-Pentecostals exhibit evident success in Christian proclamation and evangelism. So, is the decisive "physical evidence" of Spirit baptism (i.e., empowerment for witness) speaking in tongues, or is it evident success in evangelism?
ReplyDeleteThe old time Holiness Pentecostals who taught (and still teach) entire sanctification dealt with a similar issue. Sometimes people would get blessed at the altar and testify to having been sanctified, but then they would continue to live inconsistent lives--demonstrating that they really hadn't been entirely sanctified. In other words, the subjective experience had to be confirmed by objective evidence. (Or at least the subjective altar experience could be disproved by subsequent objective evidence.)
The situation is a bit different with Spirit Baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues. There is an objective quality to speaking in tongues that differs from a merely subjective experience. Others can see and hear. Nevertheless, sometimes subsequent empirical evidence calls into question an altar experience, even if that altar experience contains both the subjective awareness of having been baptized in the Spirit and the objective evidence of speaking in tongues.
Perhaps we need to understand the INITIAL physical evidence to be the altar experience that holds forth a promise, but that this initial physical evidence can be repudiated by a lack of subsequent physical evidence.
2) Another question sometimes comes up: Can one lose his or her Spirit baptism? Since most Pentecostals are Arminians, it seems we would have to answer "Yes." If a Spirit baptized person can forfeit his or her salvation, a fortiori, such a person can certainly also forfeit his or her Spirit baptism.
3) Some will then complain: All of this just shows how difficult and unnecessary it is to maintain lists of who is, and who isn't, baptized in the Spirit. So, who cares about tongues and baptism in the Spirit?
The problem, of course, is that unless we intentionally seek for God's empowerment, we won't receive it. Some have sought God's empowerment but not tongues (e.g., D. L Moody, and R.A. Torrey). These folks don't bother me nearly as much as those who don't seek Spirit baptism/empowerment with the Spirit at all, but they still bother me because of what I see in Luke/Acts. If only we could find a way both to emphasize what we think is important and to acknowledge that some non-tongues-talkers minister in the power of the Spirit.
This issue of pastors not preaching on the baptism in the Holy Spirit is very important to me. In Africa we are seeing a decreasing percentabe of our members being filled with the Spirit. Recent statisticas reveal that only about 16% of those coming to Christ are being filled with the Spirit. This, I am convinced, is because most of our African pastors are simply not preaching on Spirit baptism and praying with their people to receive. It is my experience, after having preached on the subject hundreds of times in 30 countries in Africa, that when the message is preached and people are given an opportunity to receive, many are immediately filled with the Spirit.
ReplyDeleteA primary goal in the Acts in Africa Initiative is simple: we seek to get each of our 65,000 pastors to preach regularily on the baptism in the Holy Spirit and then pray with their people to receive trusting God for the results. If this will happen, millions of Africans in our AG churches will be filled with the Spirit.
So, why are they not preaching the message? Here are some of the possible reasons. I would love to hear more discussion on some of these possible reasons:
1) Lack of understanding concerning the purpose value, and necessity of Spirit baptism (see my previous comments).
2) Lack of confidence in Jesus' promise that he would give the Holy Spirit to those who asked (Luke 11:9-13). Preachers doubt that people will be filled, so they don't bother to preach on the subject.
3) Spiritual dullness (on the part of both preacher and congregation). The Spirit is not actively working in lives.
4) Fear. This includes fear of "closet non-Pentecostals" in the congregations and fear of failure. We fear that if we minister on Spirit baptism and none are filled, we will look less competent, less spiritual, etc.
5) We simply don't know how to effectively pray with people to receive the Spirit, so we avoid the subject.
I see the real issue as being about purpose. The Baptism in the HS is often spoken about as an end in itself- like a goal.
ReplyDeleteThis relationship burned brightly for us when it had the purpose of EMPOWRERING TO WITNESS. That is, it is not just about going deeper with God. It is about becoming His witness and bringing in the lost. When we teach it as an experience onto itself, it becomes hollow, a "should' instead of an incredible world changing relationship because we become powerful to change the world!
Every new believer has a natural, inate desire to share the relationship they have just gained with Christ. What they then lack, is the power and wisdom, and coaching, to do it well! That is, they lack it until they get the baptism in The HS to do it!
We need witnesses! Powerful, walking-on-water believers who are energized by the prayer for the guy who is currently trying to kill us- the next Apostle Paul.
Enter the HS. He comes to give us power to heal so that we can draw an Acts 3 crowd, the wisdom to answer our critics, and the willingness to stand up to the mobs and tell the truth even if they kill us for it.
No we don't preach it enough, I agree with that. But the deeper root cause of why we don't preach it enough is because most of us Pastors have not personally won one of our neighbors to Christ recently, and have found other 'ministry' pursuits more important than reaching a lost person. That takes the edge off of our own walk with the HS, and reduces our fire to teach our people to reach their lost friends.
Denny said...
ReplyDeleteI agree with Gary. According to the clear teaching of Jesus (and Luke) the primary purpose of Spririt baptism in empowerment for witness (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8). This brings up a question that I have been grappling with. "If empowerment for witness is, indeed, the purpose of Spirit baptism, why is it then that the vast majority of those who are genuinely filled with the Spirit in our churches--evidenced by speaking in tongues--do not become effective witnesses for Christ?" Some, who often pray in tongues, have seldom, if ever, told anyone about Jesus. Why is this so? How can we remedy this unacceptable situation?